Tuesday, August 5, 2008
A question of faith
Q
Your children are at the top of a tall building and faced with 2 choices down: 1) An elevator designed by atheist engineers using the latest science and math. OR 2) A method inspired by God but not science and math. Which do you choose for them?
A
The Bible says that "wisdom cries aloud in the streets," and that "God gives wisdom to all men," whether they believe in Him or not. Who's to say that the elevator was not invented by divine inspiration? Inspiration can come to anyone and can benefit everyone. Also, the belief that God operates exclusive of math and science is asinine. My kids are going in the elevator, thank you.
This reminds me of the old cliche adage that refers to a person on the roof of his house during a flood. He declines all offers of help, a man in a canoe, a person in a motorboat, and a rescue helicopter, stating that he would rather wait for divine intervention. The man finally drowns and dies, and standing before God he asks Him, "why didn't you save me Lord?" To which God replies, "I sent you a canoe, a motorboat, and a helicopter, what more did you want?"
Comments
23Skidoo Aug, 04 2008 at 08:20 AM 
urk Aug, 04 2008 at 09:44 AM 23Skidoo Aug, 04 2008 at 12:56 PM urk Aug, 04 2008 at 01:33 PM 23Skidoo Aug, 04 2008 at 02:42 PM urk Aug, 04 2008 at 03:14 PM
Your children are at the top of a tall building and faced with 2 choices down: 1) An elevator designed by atheist engineers using the latest science and math. OR 2) A method inspired by God but not science and math. Which do you choose for them?
A
The Bible says that "wisdom cries aloud in the streets," and that "God gives wisdom to all men," whether they believe in Him or not. Who's to say that the elevator was not invented by divine inspiration? Inspiration can come to anyone and can benefit everyone. Also, the belief that God operates exclusive of math and science is asinine. My kids are going in the elevator, thank you.
This reminds me of the old cliche adage that refers to a person on the roof of his house during a flood. He declines all offers of help, a man in a canoe, a person in a motorboat, and a rescue helicopter, stating that he would rather wait for divine intervention. The man finally drowns and dies, and standing before God he asks Him, "why didn't you save me Lord?" To which God replies, "I sent you a canoe, a motorboat, and a helicopter, what more did you want?"
Comments
23Skidoo Aug, 04 2008 at 08:20 AM This is the second such reply and second time I have heard the very same old cliche - in response to this question. :-)
I will say the same thing. Pretend, just for the sake of this exercise, that the 2 choices are mutually exclusive.
I will say the same thing. Pretend, just for the sake of this exercise, that the 2 choices are mutually exclusive.
urk Aug, 04 2008 at 09:44 AM Let's examine this "exercise" of yours.
Why am I not with my children? How did they get to the top of the building in the first place? Have they been kidnapped? Where's my wife? Did someone lock the stairwell? Are they stuck there? Have they been incapacitated? Is there a fire or some type of emergency which leads to the urgency of my decision? Who is making me choose, and why? Why can't my kids decide for themselves? How will I communicate my decision to them? Do I have to go up to the top and tell them or will someone relay my message? If they're not in any danger why on earth do we have to decide between reason and faith? How do I know that the engineers are atheists and why would I care? Does atheism cause elevator accidents? Who is informing me of this divine alternative? God? Jesus? The Holy Ghost? An angel? James Dobson? W? Do I have to take it on faith alone, or will I and/or my kids be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life if I tell them to ride in a perfectly good elevator?
Why am I not with my children? How did they get to the top of the building in the first place? Have they been kidnapped? Where's my wife? Did someone lock the stairwell? Are they stuck there? Have they been incapacitated? Is there a fire or some type of emergency which leads to the urgency of my decision? Who is making me choose, and why? Why can't my kids decide for themselves? How will I communicate my decision to them? Do I have to go up to the top and tell them or will someone relay my message? If they're not in any danger why on earth do we have to decide between reason and faith? How do I know that the engineers are atheists and why would I care? Does atheism cause elevator accidents? Who is informing me of this divine alternative? God? Jesus? The Holy Ghost? An angel? James Dobson? W? Do I have to take it on faith alone, or will I and/or my kids be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life if I tell them to ride in a perfectly good elevator?
23Skidoo Aug, 04 2008 at 12:56 PM You and your kids went up to your office on the 40th floor, let's say. After 30 min of playing with your copy machine they need to go down to meet their mother who will take them out for ice cream. The stairs are hooked up to the fire alarm.
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In the hall you are faced with those 2 choices. Is there a guy in a Jesus or angel costume? A burning bush? A feeling in your soul? I suppose it's up to you. What would convince you? There is no indication of a malfunction with the elevator or implication of divine retribution for making the wrong choice - just the matter of sending your kids down an empty elevator shaft or out the window.
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It is up to you to decide which way they should go.
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Is that enough back story?
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In the hall you are faced with those 2 choices. Is there a guy in a Jesus or angel costume? A burning bush? A feeling in your soul? I suppose it's up to you. What would convince you? There is no indication of a malfunction with the elevator or implication of divine retribution for making the wrong choice - just the matter of sending your kids down an empty elevator shaft or out the window.
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It is up to you to decide which way they should go.
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Is that enough back story?
urk Aug, 04 2008 at 01:33 PM It's enough back story for a completely different exercise, sure. Let me see if I have this straight. The new exercise reads something like this:
"You're about to send your children downstairs from your 40th floor office to meet their mother so she can take them out for ice cream, and all of a sudden you get this overwhelming fear of danger, as if something terrible were to happen to them should they ride the elevator. You know that the stairs are not an option since they will trigger the fire alarm and cause a major disruption. You look over to the window and a feeling of peace washes over your soul, as if to say that God would carry them to safety if you drop them out of the window. What do you do?"
Is this what we're talking about now?
"You're about to send your children downstairs from your 40th floor office to meet their mother so she can take them out for ice cream, and all of a sudden you get this overwhelming fear of danger, as if something terrible were to happen to them should they ride the elevator. You know that the stairs are not an option since they will trigger the fire alarm and cause a major disruption. You look over to the window and a feeling of peace washes over your soul, as if to say that God would carry them to safety if you drop them out of the window. What do you do?"
Is this what we're talking about now?
23Skidoo Aug, 04 2008 at 02:42 PM Oh please.
1st, I made up the back story for you. Everyone else who decided to respond to this was perfectly able to understand the exercise.
2nd, You may want to try and actually read it.
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It's simply a choice. Godless science on the one hand or science-less god on the other. The rest is irrelevant padding added for your indulgence. Take it or leave it.
1st, I made up the back story for you. Everyone else who decided to respond to this was perfectly able to understand the exercise.
2nd, You may want to try and actually read it.
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It's simply a choice. Godless science on the one hand or science-less god on the other. The rest is irrelevant padding added for your indulgence. Take it or leave it.
urk Aug, 04 2008 at 03:14 PM I do believe that I've demonstrated a marked ability to read and an earnest, now finally successful, attempt to reveal the actual motivation of your inquiry.
Your exercise is asinine and puerile; the stuff of rank amateur philosophy. It demands a total suspension of logic, reason, and sanity, and as a divisive tool rather than an intellectual inquiry, it does not warrant an answer.
Your exercise is asinine and puerile; the stuff of rank amateur philosophy. It demands a total suspension of logic, reason, and sanity, and as a divisive tool rather than an intellectual inquiry, it does not warrant an answer.
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2. It doesn't say where we came from. Again - please substantiate your claim.
3. There are a great many books that could be said to be more influential - The books of the Torah for instance - remember that they underlie Islam as well as your fairytales. But then we have Newton's Principia that many would argue was far more influential.
2.the bible says we were created from dust by the hand of God himself in His image. so does evolution..it says we came from primordial goo from the universe... no difference ...just mechanism
3.it tells us where we came from, where we are and where we are going. armagedeon, tribulation, last milliniun and new world.
you are a fool.
4. newton and many other scientists got their vision of ideas from the bible. newton understood the verses talking about the heavens held in their places.
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2. Evolution is a theory that talks about how life because so diverse once it began. It says not one word about how it all got going. At any rate the important thing isn't dust or goo but if there was an intelligence and intent behind it or if it was a purely natural process.
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3. The bible doesn't tell us where we came from. There isn't anything in it about early humans in Africa, or what was going on in China at the time of Moses or Christ. It does talk about some goings on (fictional or not) in a very small part of the Middle East. As for future events... well... they lie in the future so who knows. But given that Revelations are dreams and there is no evidence of any other "truths" in the Bible - I wouldn't bet on it.
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Please point out where the Bible says that I am a fool.
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And lastly - porn is still the biggest seller on the internet. Does that say anything about its divine origin or that it has some inherent truth? I don't think so, myself. But you seem to put stock into sales figures.
which is at least 100 times as many as the torah by it self, probably a 1000x more.
the bible says any one who dismisses these words of the bible or trivializes rthem is much more than a fool, many times, in both the old and new testaments, i`ll leave it at fool.
evolution Does try to convince us that we came from nothing. to deny this is to deny the biggest debate of evolutionists vs creationists for the last decade.
the bible does say where the garden of eden was and that IS IN NORTHERN AFRICA and southern middle east.
dont bet your life savings against armagedeon.
you are wrong on 3 of your 4 points and that leads me to a statistical conclusion , not to bet on your advice of the future
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Where exactly is Eden? Anyone found it or is just something the Bible says? Also, does the Bible say it is in N. Africa? In those words? or are you interpreting something the Bible says to mean N. Africa?
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Evolution, concept that embodies the belief that existing animals and plants developed by a process of gradual, continuous change from previously existing forms. This theory, also known as descent with modification, constitutes organic evolution.
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Please note - it does not discuss the origin of life it discusses "...change from PREVIOUSLY EXISTING forms..."
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